[click to see full size]
I think I have much of the thread (including many of the posts that LAM deleted) saved to file. If anyone wishes to see any of it, I can email it. It would be insane to try and put the entire thread here.
Showing posts with label fray history. Show all posts
Showing posts with label fray history. Show all posts
27 September 2011
This might be a record.
Holy Shit. I'd forgotten about that this post till someone bumbed it back into my mbtu list.Over 8,600 views, 558 responses (not counting the scores of posts Laurie deleted once she sobered up). 
[click to see full size]
I think I have much of the thread (including many of the posts that LAM deleted) saved to file. If anyone wishes to see any of it, I can email it. It would be insane to try and put the entire thread here.
[click to see full size]I think I have much of the thread (including many of the posts that LAM deleted) saved to file. If anyone wishes to see any of it, I can email it. It would be insane to try and put the entire thread here.
10 April 2010
Fraymates MSN Group
There may have been a dozen or so fray-generated MSN groups. A few of the sites were fairly active, like Captain Greybeard and the Denjim, Lapcat's Lair, and Prudieville. But none were so well known as Fraymates and Kausville. There were almost two hundred pages of image files at Fraymates, photos of fraysters and their families, fraymeets, and vacations. And at Kausville, there were thousands of threads discussing politics, money, sex, food, (and the fray).
The site, Fraymates, was initiated by a Kausfiles regular, Berzerker. In 2002, he and SouthernGal (a brand-newcomer at the time) had gotten into a political argument that turned personal for a post or two. Zerkie and SoGal were immediately sorry for what they'd said to each other.
And for Zerkie, an idea was born. He said that he'd forgotten that he was arguing with a flesh-and-blood human being. So he started a site to help remind all of us that fraysters (or fraymates) are not just strings in the ether.
Looking through some files today, I found this screenshot of Zerkie's admonishment to keep Fraymates friendly. In the 6+ years the group stood, only 8 bans were ever necessary. And only 4 of those banned were of fraysters.
The site, Fraymates, was initiated by a Kausfiles regular, Berzerker. In 2002, he and SouthernGal (a brand-newcomer at the time) had gotten into a political argument that turned personal for a post or two. Zerkie and SoGal were immediately sorry for what they'd said to each other.
And for Zerkie, an idea was born. He said that he'd forgotten that he was arguing with a flesh-and-blood human being. So he started a site to help remind all of us that fraysters (or fraymates) are not just strings in the ether.
Looking through some files today, I found this screenshot of Zerkie's admonishment to keep Fraymates friendly. In the 6+ years the group stood, only 8 bans were ever necessary. And only 4 of those banned were of fraysters.
07 June 2007
A Year in the Fray
A Year in the Fray
by Schmutzie
06/07/2007, 2:10 PM #
by Schmutzie
06/07/2007, 2:10 PM #
Just about a year ago, I stumbled onto this message board called "Fighting Words." I had been sent a link to a Hitchens Slate column by my dear mother, (you haven't lived until your 79 year old mother sends you an e-mail containing a link, complete with an "LOL" and a sign-off TTYL, Love~M)
"Hey mom, what the hell is TTYL?"
"Michael, for goodness sakes, it means 'talk to you later.'
"Aren't you the same person who told me the internet doesn't interest you like... a year ago? Now you're online constantly, sending links, making Wiki entries, forwarding those stupid chain-mails from Claire...I mean seriously mom, WTF?"
"Tsk tsk tsk, must you always swear? We paid alot of money to educate you."
"I didn't swear."
"I know what WTF means dear. Let's clean it up when you talk to me. I am your mother."
"Sigh...TTYL mom, I love you."
"Love you too..." click.
Anyhoo (sorry), by pure chance I scrolled down below the end of the Hitch column and saw what appeared to be a couple of links.
What did you think of this article?
Add a comment. Read comments.
Add a comment? You mean I can send a nasty message to Hitchens?
Maybe I'd better read the comments first.
Click.
That was one of the most significant mouse-clicks in my internet life.
The Fray.
Wow! Look at all these people. Holy shit. They seem to be discussing things in these threads.Maybe I'll read some of these discussions before I send my personal message to Hitchens.
I remember it like it was...well, a year ago. The first click was on a message posted by Varian. It was about what a great guy Bush is, and how the Iraq War was going exactly as planned It was JerseyMan who replied first, and seemed to be agreeing with Varian. The next in line was Helio. He seemed to take issue with the first two posters, and used a rather wonderful flavor of broken Japanglish to insult the shit out of Varian and JerseyMan The guy made me laugh my ass off. He was hilarious, especially when he'd toss some French phrases in there and spice it up with some penis humor. Next came Rosey1, a doctor it seems who somehow found a way to change the subject to Israel. A few others joined in, the argument continued, and then devolved into a series of attempted scathing insults.
Read a few more comments, with subject lines ranging from Hitchens being a drunk, to one about 9/11 being an inside job.
Next thing I knew, I'd spent 3 hours reading Fighting Words. I was hooked. This was a cool idea. Who came up with this? These people are from all over the world. Lots of Yanks, but also Canadians, Japanese, Brits, Koreans, Irish....
I developed a fondness for certain writers, and an intense dislike for others. I never missed anything written by Zeus Boy. "Whether I agree with him or not, this guy is the real shit here. I like this dude, and not just because he's Irish, although that certainly helps." I always read Varian, even though I knew it would piss me off. Same with Jersey. There's something worthwhile about reading a person with views other than mine, who can back it up a little bit with some chops. I don't mind a good disagreement, as long as the other party isn't talking out their arse.
I got fed up with one argument to the point where I said farewell to the Fray. I was so pissed I could barely type.
Helio talked me out of it, although much to my surprise, Varian and JerseyMan suggested that I stay as well. I was grateful to them, and I never forget shit like that.
I was posting practically every day in Fighting Words, and I could tell people were getting used to me being there. Really interesting to me, that these people I didn't know other than by their words, were getting to know me in the same way.
Then, one day in July I went to post something. As I hit the submit button...
Your post was not received. You are either posting too often, or you violated the Rules of the Road, and have been banned.
The Freditor banned me.
To this day, I don't know why.
Well damn. Now what do I do? Take a new nic. ChicagoMick. That lasted a week or so, and I got tired of it. So I changed to Schmutz_ which seemed close enough to Schmutzie for my old friends to recognize me. (old friends that I'd met 2 months previously.)
Along came a guy named JFKMartyred. A more vile human being I can't imagine. Jews killed Kennedy. Jews brought down the WTC Jews are running the world through the Worldwide Banking Conspiracy. Israel should be nuked. Jews Jews Jews Jews. A new post every 30 minutes or so.
Well fuck this guy, I thought. I'm not going to sit quietly while this shithead puts this garbage up there. I'm as good at insults as most people, I'm going to let this motherfucker have it. And I did.
Unsatisfied, I wanted this prick banned. I was banned. Why is this asshole allowed to stay? I decided to top post a question for the Editor. "Hey editor, why is this shithead being allowed to post this junk?"...or something clever like that.
My first reply was from a guy named TheQuietMan. (Hey I love that movie!! Especially the part where Dannaher and Thornton have a handshake squeeze-contest at Cohan's.) Never saw this TQM guy before, but I opened his reply. He has a star next to his name.(a rare appearance in FightClub.)
"You should address this question here."
(Hey, TQM knows how to do links like my mom!)
So I clicked his link. Fraywatch.
Fraywatch? What the hell is this? Hey, look TQM has posted a question about my question! "Geoff, is this acceptable?"
Who the hell is Geoff?
There are other Frays????
Within 10 minutes,JFKMartyred was gone. All of his anti-Semitic hate-speech had been flushed. He had been banned.
Oh..so that's who this Geoff guy is.
Clicked on TQM's MBTU.
And that is how I found Best of the Fray, so blame him. Loads of new nics to get used to, so I sat quietly and read. And read. And read. This was fascinating to me. Unlike FightClub, BotF is about all sorts of things, not just the Hitchens column.
Look, a "Fray Poll'... "Dumbest Hippie Songs of the 60s."...My first BotF post! "Incense and Peppermints" by The Strawberry Alarm Clock. (we didn't have underline/bold back in the old days kids, we had to walk uphill to school in both directions) Someone named Mellifluous replied with a nice comment, and was then accused of being someone named Tempo. My first reply.Why thank you. And I added "Green Tambourine" by The Lemon Pipers.
I decided that I didn't care if Mellifluous is Tempo, since I didn't know either of them anyway. ( I have since figured out who is whom.)
Tossed up my first top post. New Orleans. Wrote about Lewis and Clark, and how important that port city was back in the Louisiana Purchase days, and how sad it is that it's being allowed to drown while GW flies over in Air Force One. Someone named Isonomist replied very nicely, and welcomed me to the board. She was immediately jumped by some asshole named Normality.
My first BotF enemy. I disliked him immediately, and my opinion never changed. I liked Iso immediately, and my opinion has never changed. First impressions are important I guess huh?
In the short amount of time that I've been reading/posting here, I have gained a certain familiarity with most of the regulars. I've: learned the 12 step process for logging in, argued with Texans, talked Rocky Mountains with a Coloradan, laughed at the antics of a Japanese guy, enjoyed poetry in another Fray thanks to Zeus Boy's heads-up, "met" other Chicagoans, talked John Wayne "True Grit" quotes, taken polls, followed links, insulted Bush, discussed serious topics like plagiarism, tried to be funny, been saddened by a Frayster's loss, been heartened by the support given her by fellow Fraysters, and braced myself for the big switchover.
Well it's been 4 days, and I think I'm prepared to render my half-assed judgment of the new place.
I like it.
Some old friends, some old foes, some new nics, and a format I'm beginning to like. (would it have been so hard to have ratings and views side-by-side instead of either/or?)
It's nice to see people energized again, and there's a sense of "fresh start" ..at least for me there is. I still enjoy the same posters from BotF1, but for some reason I'm giving a new look to people I'd soured on before. Maybe it's the new wallpaper. Maybe it's the new format. Whatever. I like the new place.
(Although by force of habit, I'm still typing my PW, hitting login, hitting backspace 3 times, re-entering PW, hitting enter and crossing my fingers.)
11 February 2007
The Fading Fray
Subject: The Fading Fray
From: Ender
Date: Feb 11 2007 11:55PM
My interest in keeping the fray interesting hasn't waned so much as it has evolved. It was that desire to keep the fray interesting that lead to bestofthefray [bestofthefray.blogspot.com/]. But a curious thing happened once the focus I usually reserved for the fray was shifted to the task of exploiting the rest of the web. Piece by piece, bit by bit, I began to feel that the talents I'd discovered thanks to the fray had been wasted on the fray. This suspicion in light of the many years I'd been a pure frayster eventually left me with something similar to buyer's regret. By the time I tired of bestofthefray, my buyer's regret was just one of a dozen arguments that left me seeing the blogosphere as the fray, only writ large. I regard bestofthefray not as a failure, but as a step in my evolution from frayster to blogger. A "transitional fossil", if you like.
But the fray remains good for some things. It's good for conversation. It's good for maintaining anonymity. Not that you can't be an anonymous blogger, but unlike the fray, blogging has the power to make you famous, which makes anonymity a lot trickier. It's good for teaching the value of anonymity, and the fray, you could argue, can serve as a good proving ground for cutting your virtual teeth. Lastly, the fray remains good for community. You can argue the relative merits or current state of the community, but you can't argue it doesn't exist. I end my little list of the fray's merits with community because my membership in that community, my investment in that community is the only thing about the fray that doesn't pale in light of what I learned thanks to bestofthefray.
At this point it's useful to remember what kind of frayster I was because it helps to explain what kind of blogger I am. I was a political poster, a literary poster, a social poster, and that's just for starters. As I sit here thinking about all the different types of posts I've written, I know that I simply can't list them all, and that despite having dabbled in just about every type of posting imaginable, the one type that comes to mind most, that I suspect comes to your mind first, is the manipulative poster. The reason for that is not just because I've been successful at it roiling the pond, but because no matter the type of post, I usually managed to make it manipulative too. That sounds bad, and I won't deny that I went about collecting wounded egos the way some went about collected friends. But in my defense, I always paid you the compliment of treating you like adults, and as I define manipulation, everyone is guilty, to varying degrees.
But manipulative, however accurate, doesn't really do my fray history justice. If you can imagine one, a fray mechanic is a better way of understanding how I approached posting. From understanding what would get a rise out of the fray to finding new ways to take advantage of the structure and nature of the fray, my aim, it seems, was to get the fray to do things no one else had. To me the fray wasn't just a problem to be solved, but a problem I took pleasure in solving, and was even driven to solve. It is this interest in the question--how can I make this thing meet its full potential--that I no longer ask about the fray, but I ask instead about blogging. Manipulating the fray, and you, is a primitive pursuit compared to the challenge of roiling the ponds, lakes, oceans of the internet. This is the kind of blogger I am.
The challenges of blogging and the tools available to bloggers are both more sophisticated and many compared to the fray. And much in the same way I was experimenting with the fray, others have long since experimented with the blogosphere. It is the same problem, at the same state of solution, but much much bigger, and with bigger fish working it. I'm intrigued, and almost without realizing it, I've started in on work my solution.
This is where WikiFray comes in. WikiFray is the beginnings of my proof. My buyer's regret? WikiFray solves it. It brings my investment in this community with me to the blogosphere. Sounds selfish and it is. I lost interest in the fray, but rather than abandoning my investment here I devised a way to take it with me. The joke is on everyone who followed me to WikiFray isn't it? I manipulated them. Some of you are going to love the idea of me admitting to manipulating those who joined WikiFray. This is it! The gotcha that we knew Ender would pull. But those of you who are thinking that as you read this are not adults. An adult recognizes that what is true for me is also true for WikiFray contributors. My investment is their investment. I'm not taking advantage of them anymore than they're taking advantage of me and each other. All I've done is set up an exchange where fraysters can convert their fray stocks into blogging stocks.
As for the future, well, I won't be changing my stripes. I'm a mechanic. That is my main reason for playing. This, however, is the last time I invest those energies in getting the fray to do something new. If you can't see the advantages of WikiFray, that's too bad. If you're here just for the conversation or to play anonymously, I understand. But I want more than just conversation. I want as many people as possible to read what I have to say. It's that simple. Achieving that is the problem, it would seem, I was born to work on. I've had success here, but I could use your help out there. You each have strengths that you've discovered and honed and rely on in the fray. WikiFray combines our strengths, so that in addition to using them in opposition to one another as you do here in fray, their secondary potential to persuade and invite a larger audience isn't wasted bouncing off the walls of this closed community. You may know your most erudite argument in opposition to your old fray adversaries won't cause them to budge. Yet you still write it. You still post it. Then why if not to persuade the audience, if not to compete to be seen as the winner of the exchange? How much more fun would that be, how much more worth it, if your audience was more than a handful of people who already know you so well they already know which one of you is going to win?
Think about it. [wikifray.blogspot.com ]
http://fray.slate.com/?id=3936&m=18812651
From: Ender
Date: Feb 11 2007 11:55PM
My interest in keeping the fray interesting hasn't waned so much as it has evolved. It was that desire to keep the fray interesting that lead to bestofthefray [bestofthefray.blogspot.com/]. But a curious thing happened once the focus I usually reserved for the fray was shifted to the task of exploiting the rest of the web. Piece by piece, bit by bit, I began to feel that the talents I'd discovered thanks to the fray had been wasted on the fray. This suspicion in light of the many years I'd been a pure frayster eventually left me with something similar to buyer's regret. By the time I tired of bestofthefray, my buyer's regret was just one of a dozen arguments that left me seeing the blogosphere as the fray, only writ large. I regard bestofthefray not as a failure, but as a step in my evolution from frayster to blogger. A "transitional fossil", if you like.
But the fray remains good for some things. It's good for conversation. It's good for maintaining anonymity. Not that you can't be an anonymous blogger, but unlike the fray, blogging has the power to make you famous, which makes anonymity a lot trickier. It's good for teaching the value of anonymity, and the fray, you could argue, can serve as a good proving ground for cutting your virtual teeth. Lastly, the fray remains good for community. You can argue the relative merits or current state of the community, but you can't argue it doesn't exist. I end my little list of the fray's merits with community because my membership in that community, my investment in that community is the only thing about the fray that doesn't pale in light of what I learned thanks to bestofthefray.
At this point it's useful to remember what kind of frayster I was because it helps to explain what kind of blogger I am. I was a political poster, a literary poster, a social poster, and that's just for starters. As I sit here thinking about all the different types of posts I've written, I know that I simply can't list them all, and that despite having dabbled in just about every type of posting imaginable, the one type that comes to mind most, that I suspect comes to your mind first, is the manipulative poster. The reason for that is not just because I've been successful at it roiling the pond, but because no matter the type of post, I usually managed to make it manipulative too. That sounds bad, and I won't deny that I went about collecting wounded egos the way some went about collected friends. But in my defense, I always paid you the compliment of treating you like adults, and as I define manipulation, everyone is guilty, to varying degrees.
But manipulative, however accurate, doesn't really do my fray history justice. If you can imagine one, a fray mechanic is a better way of understanding how I approached posting. From understanding what would get a rise out of the fray to finding new ways to take advantage of the structure and nature of the fray, my aim, it seems, was to get the fray to do things no one else had. To me the fray wasn't just a problem to be solved, but a problem I took pleasure in solving, and was even driven to solve. It is this interest in the question--how can I make this thing meet its full potential--that I no longer ask about the fray, but I ask instead about blogging. Manipulating the fray, and you, is a primitive pursuit compared to the challenge of roiling the ponds, lakes, oceans of the internet. This is the kind of blogger I am.
The challenges of blogging and the tools available to bloggers are both more sophisticated and many compared to the fray. And much in the same way I was experimenting with the fray, others have long since experimented with the blogosphere. It is the same problem, at the same state of solution, but much much bigger, and with bigger fish working it. I'm intrigued, and almost without realizing it, I've started in on work my solution.
This is where WikiFray comes in. WikiFray is the beginnings of my proof. My buyer's regret? WikiFray solves it. It brings my investment in this community with me to the blogosphere. Sounds selfish and it is. I lost interest in the fray, but rather than abandoning my investment here I devised a way to take it with me. The joke is on everyone who followed me to WikiFray isn't it? I manipulated them. Some of you are going to love the idea of me admitting to manipulating those who joined WikiFray. This is it! The gotcha that we knew Ender would pull. But those of you who are thinking that as you read this are not adults. An adult recognizes that what is true for me is also true for WikiFray contributors. My investment is their investment. I'm not taking advantage of them anymore than they're taking advantage of me and each other. All I've done is set up an exchange where fraysters can convert their fray stocks into blogging stocks.
As for the future, well, I won't be changing my stripes. I'm a mechanic. That is my main reason for playing. This, however, is the last time I invest those energies in getting the fray to do something new. If you can't see the advantages of WikiFray, that's too bad. If you're here just for the conversation or to play anonymously, I understand. But I want more than just conversation. I want as many people as possible to read what I have to say. It's that simple. Achieving that is the problem, it would seem, I was born to work on. I've had success here, but I could use your help out there. You each have strengths that you've discovered and honed and rely on in the fray. WikiFray combines our strengths, so that in addition to using them in opposition to one another as you do here in fray, their secondary potential to persuade and invite a larger audience isn't wasted bouncing off the walls of this closed community. You may know your most erudite argument in opposition to your old fray adversaries won't cause them to budge. Yet you still write it. You still post it. Then why if not to persuade the audience, if not to compete to be seen as the winner of the exchange? How much more fun would that be, how much more worth it, if your audience was more than a handful of people who already know you so well they already know which one of you is going to win?
Think about it. [wikifray.blogspot.com ]
http://fray.slate.com/?id=3936&m=18812651
09 January 2002
Coming Clean
Subject: The "QUOTE" game.
From: Ender
Date: Jan 9 2002 8:04PM
Tempo is on a mission. As many of you know, I recently requested of Tempo that we should go our separate ways. Since then, apparently, she believes that if she can't be my friend then none of her friends can be friendly with me either. Don't you love people like that, they pick a fight with someone and then they put you in the middle. Unlike Tempo, I won't ask you to chose but I thought I could do Tempo one last favor and save her some time. I typed Ender into the search engine and compiled all of Tempo's many thoughts on me. Now, with my star, I will repost them for all to read.
"I DO think there's a thread of pettiness, not to say meanness, in both Ender's question...
-
Nah, just go flame Ender for me. Talk about behaving like a Flaming you know what. He IS the King.
Go see BOTF, ok? follow up MBTU...MAN is he uptight?
Or what??
later, gator, T.
-
How do you like ole snotty Ender putting us down -- AGAIN -- bec. we dared to defend SOM and say a few things to him?? What an arrogant guy he is, of course, I've always thought that of him.
-
I know he's incapable of it, frankly, a-z but I have always thought FAR FAR more of you. As you know....
Ender will not respond to my post, below, asking if there was a misunderstanding.. . (Of course....)
Will **you?** (N.B., I expect MORE of you, g o a-z than I ever would or could....from him)
-
Dear bl, please see Ender's orig. post above, w. snippy comment about me, kit and SOM; then see my posts above in response.
You will notice he does NOT reply to me (after all, a mere woman, a foolish poet, and NO STAR either)...Ender, who was at fault, has totally turned the tables, verbally, and now seeks to **BLAME me, kit and SOM for his nastiness toward her? I've asked ghost of a-z to reply to me; let's see if she will. I always have higher expectations of her.
There's a name for that behavior (**) in Psychology, Brandon, what is it?
-
p.s. A couple of shots of WHAT for Ender? The non-arrogance gene? He could use THAT....
-
oh interesting ....so you *did* catch all that with "Mr." Ender, eh? Mr. in quotes bec. appar'y he think he's G*d or something;
-
As one who WAS involved in that brouhaha, mary, I have to take offense at your use of the term, "String GangBang." It wasn't that at all and if it was or if YOU are interpreting it that way, frankly, he deserved it.
I think Ender has "merely" over-reacted. He is obviously so unused to ANY criticism that, in his usual arrogant way, he can't take any. He totally over-reacted, there.
His "threat" to leave the Fray was obviously bogus my word) and "staged" (John McG's word) and you ALL STAR posters that is) fell for it, then fell in line.
sucking back up to him and welcoming him "back," when he clearly WASN't GOING ANYWHERE.
Ender started off in the wrong, he continued to be in the wrong, and he ended up being in the wrong.
He is STILL in the wrong with that nasty slap at me (which several are starting to see as undeserved and have posted to me, as so)
IMHO. and he's got his nerve dumping on ME for trying to defend someone who constantly gets attacked around here. There's a lot of STAR-in-group clubbiness going on in that thread.
Perhaps a little SELF-examination is in order?
loveya and with respect as always, but I do think most of you guys are MISreading that thread. But now you're just afraid/hesitant to say so. Afraid he'll have your STARS stripped for stepping out of line? That IS what it looks like, dear mary. "
Your turn Tempo.
I invite you to return the favor; my MBTU is not that long that you should be able to quote right back at me all the terrible things I've said about you. Oh, never mind, other than the stuff that was true and you already admitted to, I haven't said one bad thing about you. Really, look. Come on Tempo, really, let's have it but remember, we're playing the "QUOTE" game, not the imaginary slight game.
http://fray.slate.com/?id=3936&m=2691209
Subject: Coming Clean
From: Ender
Date: Jan 9 2002 8:09PM
A-z pretty much nails it here (m=2687155). However, unlike her, I have no regrets. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with my post and the subsequent thread.
A-z also points to Amber/Feisty Wench's and Ms. Logical as inconsistent. At the time, I had no idea who Feisty Wench was and I still am not familiar with Ms. Logical. Therefore, my policy of ignoring no-name flame baiters applied to them and still does.
The following is a recounting of events that culminated in my inspired (and admittedly ill-conceived) ruse of leaving the fray.
It all began with Tempo:
I recently came across one of Tempo's posts (m=2612699) in which she berated a poster for taking umbrage with Star of Moira. I recalled an instance when Tempo took similar offense and exhibited a similar degree of frustration with a poster (m=2184629) and brought it to her attention. Tempo proceeded to express disappointment that I would attempt to embarrass her and implied that I was woefully misinformed or simply fallacious. I provided her with the link at which point she was forced to admit that a) she was being a hypocrite; b) recant her accusations directed at me; and c) the poster whom she had taken issue with was in fact the same SofM who back then was regularly recognized as B&C.
It is my opinion and my impression that Tempo has been gunning for me ever since.
Apparently Tempo felt that I should have acknowledged her humble apology and was upset that I did not, in essence, conform to her expectations. Tempo also e-mailed me, inquiring as to my experience in the Navy. I was not inspired to answer her again but in this instance because I had already answered her in a prior thread which she must have forgotten. Unfortunately, that thread has now disappeared but perhaps she will recall it since it was in the poems fray.
The way I see it, Tempo is a very prolific poster and a character to boot. I've enjoyed many of her posts and have had a number of rewarding interactions with her. What became apparent to me though was, not only would she promptly forget the content of any exchanges we had but in order to stay on a laudable footing with her, I would have to cater to her sensibilities ( i.e. entertain her). Suffice it to say, I consider it to much work to stay in her good graces.
Now kit:
Kit took exceptional exception to my post on SofM. She was not only inspired to attempt to damn every offshoot of that particular post but even went to other threads I'd started to lend a disparaging remark to two. Now what bothered me about this was not kit's expressing her opinion or even her shadowing of me but the fact that SofM did nothing to allay her fears. You see, all the while kit was frantically tracking me down and berating me, SofM was doing the same under the new alias Top quark (See these MBTU's m=2664827 & m=2663012). As Top quark, SofM showed that she could post in a more conventional manner which addressed kit's main concern. You see, kit came to SofM's defense since for all intensive purposes, it appeared that SofM could not. Now, I figured it out and others figured it out but not kit. I suspect it didn't suite her chivalry to recognize that SofM is just as capable as the rest of us but unlike the rest of us, is not inclined to maintain a regular MBTU.
So I vowed to quite the fray and have the offending post deleted. IOW, I was going to punish myself for a perceived offense and engage in censorship. Now, I named Tempo, kit and of course SofM in this parting post. Tempo stepped up to the plate but did not attempt to stop me or save the post. Kit, after hanging on every post I made was nowhere to be seen and SofM was posting under a variety of other aliases (business as usual). You see, I wasn't really leaving, I was testing the character of each of my judges and they all failed. They condone censorship and are perfectly willing to banish someone who doesn't conform to their standards. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of them was actually patting themselves on the back, thinking, I took down a star poster.
Oh, and in response to the inevitable, "I knew what you were up to and I wasn't going to play your game" retort, save it, you're a dollar short and a couple days late.
Finally Tempo
I'm done, you can rant and rave about me all you want but I'm done. Goodbye
http://fray.slate.com/?id=3936&m=2691231
From: Ender
Date: Jan 9 2002 8:04PM
Tempo is on a mission. As many of you know, I recently requested of Tempo that we should go our separate ways. Since then, apparently, she believes that if she can't be my friend then none of her friends can be friendly with me either. Don't you love people like that, they pick a fight with someone and then they put you in the middle. Unlike Tempo, I won't ask you to chose but I thought I could do Tempo one last favor and save her some time. I typed Ender into the search engine and compiled all of Tempo's many thoughts on me. Now, with my star, I will repost them for all to read.
"I DO think there's a thread of pettiness, not to say meanness, in both Ender's question...
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Nah, just go flame Ender for me. Talk about behaving like a Flaming you know what. He IS the King.
Go see BOTF, ok? follow up MBTU...MAN is he uptight?
Or what??
later, gator, T.
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How do you like ole snotty Ender putting us down -- AGAIN -- bec. we dared to defend SOM and say a few things to him?? What an arrogant guy he is, of course, I've always thought that of him.
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I know he's incapable of it, frankly, a-z but I have always thought FAR FAR more of you. As you know....
Ender will not respond to my post, below, asking if there was a misunderstanding.. . (Of course....)
Will **you?** (N.B., I expect MORE of you, g o a-z than I ever would or could....from him)
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Dear bl, please see Ender's orig. post above, w. snippy comment about me, kit and SOM; then see my posts above in response.
You will notice he does NOT reply to me (after all, a mere woman, a foolish poet, and NO STAR either)...Ender, who was at fault, has totally turned the tables, verbally, and now seeks to **BLAME me, kit and SOM for his nastiness toward her? I've asked ghost of a-z to reply to me; let's see if she will. I always have higher expectations of her.
There's a name for that behavior (**) in Psychology, Brandon, what is it?
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p.s. A couple of shots of WHAT for Ender? The non-arrogance gene? He could use THAT....
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oh interesting ....so you *did* catch all that with "Mr." Ender, eh? Mr. in quotes bec. appar'y he think he's G*d or something;
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As one who WAS involved in that brouhaha, mary, I have to take offense at your use of the term, "String GangBang." It wasn't that at all and if it was or if YOU are interpreting it that way, frankly, he deserved it.
I think Ender has "merely" over-reacted. He is obviously so unused to ANY criticism that, in his usual arrogant way, he can't take any. He totally over-reacted, there.
His "threat" to leave the Fray was obviously bogus my word) and "staged" (John McG's word) and you ALL STAR posters that is) fell for it, then fell in line.
sucking back up to him and welcoming him "back," when he clearly WASN't GOING ANYWHERE.
Ender started off in the wrong, he continued to be in the wrong, and he ended up being in the wrong.
He is STILL in the wrong with that nasty slap at me (which several are starting to see as undeserved and have posted to me, as so)
IMHO. and he's got his nerve dumping on ME for trying to defend someone who constantly gets attacked around here. There's a lot of STAR-in-group clubbiness going on in that thread.
Perhaps a little SELF-examination is in order?
loveya and with respect as always, but I do think most of you guys are MISreading that thread. But now you're just afraid/hesitant to say so. Afraid he'll have your STARS stripped for stepping out of line? That IS what it looks like, dear mary. "
Your turn Tempo.
I invite you to return the favor; my MBTU is not that long that you should be able to quote right back at me all the terrible things I've said about you. Oh, never mind, other than the stuff that was true and you already admitted to, I haven't said one bad thing about you. Really, look. Come on Tempo, really, let's have it but remember, we're playing the "QUOTE" game, not the imaginary slight game.
http://fray.slate.com/?id=3936&m=2691209
Subject: Coming Clean
From: Ender
Date: Jan 9 2002 8:09PM
A-z pretty much nails it here (m=2687155). However, unlike her, I have no regrets. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing wrong with my post and the subsequent thread.
A-z also points to Amber/Feisty Wench's and Ms. Logical as inconsistent. At the time, I had no idea who Feisty Wench was and I still am not familiar with Ms. Logical. Therefore, my policy of ignoring no-name flame baiters applied to them and still does.
The following is a recounting of events that culminated in my inspired (and admittedly ill-conceived) ruse of leaving the fray.
It all began with Tempo:
I recently came across one of Tempo's posts (m=2612699) in which she berated a poster for taking umbrage with Star of Moira. I recalled an instance when Tempo took similar offense and exhibited a similar degree of frustration with a poster (m=2184629) and brought it to her attention. Tempo proceeded to express disappointment that I would attempt to embarrass her and implied that I was woefully misinformed or simply fallacious. I provided her with the link at which point she was forced to admit that a) she was being a hypocrite; b) recant her accusations directed at me; and c) the poster whom she had taken issue with was in fact the same SofM who back then was regularly recognized as B&C.
It is my opinion and my impression that Tempo has been gunning for me ever since.
Apparently Tempo felt that I should have acknowledged her humble apology and was upset that I did not, in essence, conform to her expectations. Tempo also e-mailed me, inquiring as to my experience in the Navy. I was not inspired to answer her again but in this instance because I had already answered her in a prior thread which she must have forgotten. Unfortunately, that thread has now disappeared but perhaps she will recall it since it was in the poems fray.
The way I see it, Tempo is a very prolific poster and a character to boot. I've enjoyed many of her posts and have had a number of rewarding interactions with her. What became apparent to me though was, not only would she promptly forget the content of any exchanges we had but in order to stay on a laudable footing with her, I would have to cater to her sensibilities ( i.e. entertain her). Suffice it to say, I consider it to much work to stay in her good graces.
Now kit:
Kit took exceptional exception to my post on SofM. She was not only inspired to attempt to damn every offshoot of that particular post but even went to other threads I'd started to lend a disparaging remark to two. Now what bothered me about this was not kit's expressing her opinion or even her shadowing of me but the fact that SofM did nothing to allay her fears. You see, all the while kit was frantically tracking me down and berating me, SofM was doing the same under the new alias Top quark (See these MBTU's m=2664827 & m=2663012). As Top quark, SofM showed that she could post in a more conventional manner which addressed kit's main concern. You see, kit came to SofM's defense since for all intensive purposes, it appeared that SofM could not. Now, I figured it out and others figured it out but not kit. I suspect it didn't suite her chivalry to recognize that SofM is just as capable as the rest of us but unlike the rest of us, is not inclined to maintain a regular MBTU.
So I vowed to quite the fray and have the offending post deleted. IOW, I was going to punish myself for a perceived offense and engage in censorship. Now, I named Tempo, kit and of course SofM in this parting post. Tempo stepped up to the plate but did not attempt to stop me or save the post. Kit, after hanging on every post I made was nowhere to be seen and SofM was posting under a variety of other aliases (business as usual). You see, I wasn't really leaving, I was testing the character of each of my judges and they all failed. They condone censorship and are perfectly willing to banish someone who doesn't conform to their standards. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of them was actually patting themselves on the back, thinking, I took down a star poster.
Oh, and in response to the inevitable, "I knew what you were up to and I wasn't going to play your game" retort, save it, you're a dollar short and a couple days late.
Finally Tempo
I'm done, you can rant and rave about me all you want but I'm done. Goodbye
http://fray.slate.com/?id=3936&m=2691231
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